The proceedings were opened by the presenter, Mr. KATAYAMA, and followed by brief addresses from Mr. KAWAMOTO and Mr. YAMAMURA. A digest of The Old Crocodile and the trailer for THE BOOK OF THE DEAD were screened prior to the general interview, which began with Mr. YAMAMURA. He discussed the original author of The Old Crocodile, L'eopold CHAUVEAU, and explained about his own motivation.

YAMAMUARA : The original story was written by the French author, L'eopold CHAUVEAU. However, his stories are not published in France at all and he is mentioned only briefly in encyclopedias of French literature. When The Old Crocodile was shown at Annecy International Animated Film Festival, most of the audience didn’t know that the original author was French. In Japan, fortunately, his book was first published in the early Showa era through the excellent translation of Mr. YAMAMOTO Natsuhiko. A new translation was recently published by Fukuinkan Shoten. The story is fully allegorical and so there are potentially many ways in which it can be understood, depending on the reader. I like hearing how people interpret the story. Roughly divided, there are two types of people; one has compassion for the Crocodile and the other for the Octopus. What I find fascinating about short animations is that they can be watched and enjoyed many times and each time the story can be read in a different way. As I have absolutely no ambition to create a Hollywood type film, the story of The Old Crocodile was very much suited to my intention.

KATAYAMA : Although this animation is based on a picture book, the created world and its spirit is definitely ‘the world of YAMAMURA’. It gives us something different to think about every time we see it and there is more than one answer. The story is allegorical and so has the potential to be relevant in some way to people of any time; it also has the potential to be considered controversial.

Next, Mr. KAWAMOTO told us about his work: “I first had the idea for this work thirty years ago, but it was only recently that I had the opportunity to do anything about it.” He explained that it required a great amount of effort for him to create an animated film based on ORIGUCHI Shinobu’s SHISHA NO SHO, often said to be a “monumental work of Japanese modern literature”.

KAWAMOTO : ORIGUCHI Shinobu has many admirers, as well as disciples, who in their turn have students. Looking back, it was audacious of me to attempt to translate literature with such adherents into a film; if it had turned out to be a failure, I’m afraid, I would have had to hang myself. Fortunately, I had the great staff and the finished film was received well by audiences. The original version of SHISHA NO SHO is a kind of story that it is too difficult for most people to understand straight away, but it left my mind with very vivid images which stuck in my mind and never went away. I gradually realized that it could be the fulfillment of what I had been intending to do. Many of the works I have produced over the years have depicted the suffering of women, but in this story I found a pure feeling that could potentially redeem those women from their suffering.

Mr. KAWAMOTO also told us that THE BOOK OF THE DEAD was shot at Tama Art University, where he taught students how to create puppets, and gave lectures on puppet animation. In the production studio, there were staffs of various ages from youthful teenagers to the expert Mr. KAWAMOTO himself, who is 81 years old this year, which produced a creative atmosphere. There followed also some frank remarks concerning the difficulties that many animation artists are facing.

YAMAMURA : Creating animation takes a lot of patience. I am 41 years old now, and I feel as though I ought to make a life plan as soon as possible. Mr. KAWAMOTO is 81 years old and still active in animation production, but I am not sure if I could be like him. I feel as though I am under a kind of pressure to create a few more representative works in my 40s, if possible, so I am trying to find more time to spend on production.

KAWAMOTO : When Mr. YAMAMURA was at the final stage of his production of Mt. Head, I asked him how things were going; he replied ‘I have reached its limitations’. The situation is contradictory and very hard, as you can’t create without some income, but if you work for income, the work won’t be what you wanted to create. This is the difficulty that every artist has to face sometime, and Mr. YAMAMURA was already experiencing it in his 30s, which I was impressed with: hearing his words, I thought he was a real artist. I tell you, making a film is a really tough job. You make a film with the little money you have and by the time it is finished, all the money is gone. You have to apply to the international festivals abroad for recognition, but if you win a prize, you have to go the country at your own expense. We call it ‘festival poverty’ (laughs).”

KATAYAMA : Creating animation may look exciting, but in reality it is much unembellished. You cannot expect to be rich at all (laughs). Although passion is the most important factor, making money is very difficult. Even master KAWAMOTO had to make a very great effort to collect a production fund. These films are the result of the directors’ painstaking effort and we can appreciate their feeling by watching them over and over again.

At this point, Mr. YAMAMURA and Mr. KAWAMOTO explained the techniques they used, showing behind the scenes documentaries concerning the production of The Old Crocodile and THE BOOK OF THE DEAD. Mr. YAMAMURA told us that in The Old Crocodile, there was no music for scenes; in order to apply an analog-like feel to the sound effects, he recorded the sound of sea waves with five microphones for the Dolby surround system on the seashore, and then, he put it onto magnetic tape to deteriorate the sound quality into analog sound and then added the sound to the film. The making of THE BOOK OF THE DEAD showed the production studio racing against the clock and expending a great deal of effort. Bearing in mind their commitment to their own style of art, we asked both of them what they thought was the most important thing for animation.

KAWAMOTO : The most important thing is that the puppets should appear to be alive; moving the puppets skillfully is one thing, but it is another to make them move as if they have souls. It must be same for picture animations.

YAMAMURA : The characters should be alive on the screen. Though there are many people who can move pictures smoothly, there are not many who can invest characters with a soul. The audience is drawn into a film through the combination of the flow of feeling and the spirit of the creator.

Mr. KAWAMOTO and Mr. YAMAMURA have been creating animations for years, and people always look forward to their new films. By way of closing, they told us how they get their ideas for animations and what they need to do to realize their ideas. Mr. KAWAMOTO was the last to speak and afterwards there was a special screening of The Old Crocodile and THE BOOK OF THE DEAD, which officially ended the symposium.

YAMAMURA : I am often asked ‘why do you create animation?’, and the answer I now propose is that it is because I want to know the ‘truth’. Through the process of creating films, I feel that, in my own way, I discover something truthful about reality. I’m going to deal with KAFKA in my next film, and I’m reading various books and other literature about him. I think that I now almost completely comprehend his ideas and I feel that it is beginning to accord with my own thoughts. I think a film finally becomes my own work when I can get what I found already close to me.

KAWAMOTO : Many of us have, or have had in the past, something we desired to create; even master TRNKA had something he wanted to make into a film at the end of his life, but was unable to accomplish his desire before he died. One of his apprentices, Břetislav POJAR, had been thinking of creating The Flying Sneaker for 30 years before he actually made it. I also heard that a master of Belgian animation, Raoul SERVAIS, had the desire to create Taxandria for a long time. It is something we have that is like ‘karma’. Conversely, if you don’t have anything like that, perhaps you ought to consider another vocation than making animation. We don’t give up and keep creating animations, because we have ‘karma’ that we can’t suppress ourselves. I think this is my motivation.”